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cutting the rosette channel
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9875		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  gratay [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:45 pm ]
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I'm just wondering what peoples tool preference for cutting rosette channels are?
tools i have are drill press, 1/4" router....
Is it easier to use a flycutter on the drill press or make a base for the the router....the router is quite big and maybe clumsy for this task? maybe a dremel is better?
or the manual circle cutter LMI sells....or John grevens drill press rosette cutter...also sold by LMI....

Seems to be a lot of options for this task...and I'm just interested in what people have experienced using any of these or other methods ..
Thanks for any info.
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:04 pm ]
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Grant, I use downcut bits in my lam trimer with this.



There has been lots of recent discussion on circle cutters. Mine is based off one that Tony Karol posted a while back.

Take a look here for several topics on circle cutters.

Sylvan Wells just posted a tutorial on how to build one of these things. It is very easy, quick and offers micro adjustments. You can't go wrong. Cost for materials is under $10, just have to have a laminate trimmer, which is sounds like you have one. So you just need the bits.

There have also been some discussions recently on bits. Take a look here for a good idea of where to get them. Lots of options.
Author:  Alain Lambert [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:14 pm ]
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I use my router with a small hole drilled in the base, like Cumpiano show in his book.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:44 pm ]
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It's difficult to use most routers for this job because you can't easily get the 'centre pin' close enough to the cutting bit unless you are willing to 'work blind' with the pin under the router base. Also, a router is way too much power and as you say, clumsy for this job.

I used a Dremel for this for 10-15 guitars and I think it's the best choice, especially when you are starting out- not too much power and it feels 'under control'. The Dremel is also good for inlay and cutting saddle slots, etc.. The newer Dremel router base seems pretty big and 'clunky' to me. You can easily make a wood base and a circle cutting jig from wood- I think 'Mario' had some pics of this a while back.

Fly cutters-the cheap kind- I agree with Hesh. Vibration-prone, dangerous, etc...not my kind of tool for soundboards. If I were going this direction, I think I'd try hand-cutting first.
John
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:11 pm ]
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Talk about form following function! Nice design Terry. I like it. I just scavenged materials together for Sylvan's model. Now I'm not sure which way to go. Maybe some hybrid of the two.
Author:  Anthony Z [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:25 pm ]
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This is the one I made from a GAL Redbook article. I use it with a Foredom -- it can be made to work with a dremel.



I made a seperate base for that can used for cutting inlay pockets freehand.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:30 pm ]
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Terry-
Very elegant jig.
Which model PC laminate trimmer/router is that?
I notice it is unusual in that you can completely detach the base, and still retain the factory depth adjustment.
That's a nice feature- not common in the ones I've seen.
John
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:34 pm ]
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The design I have allows the pin to be under the router/jig base, and in no way is working blind - I can use a flashlight and see exactly where the bit is, for rough settings, then all you have to do is spin it around the top, just like any other jig. With the pin locked, where is the thing going to go ??? When a jig works this well, its easy to trust it ...
Author:  Colin S [ Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:46 pm ]
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Like Hesh, I too use the Stew Mac base with a Dremel, I use the newer circle cutter base and a 400 series Dremel. The runout on the older Dremel seems to have been solved with the new one, and I'm more than happy with the results. I too use the Stew Mac downcut bits and also LMI end mills. As I'm only cutting 1.2mm deep slots in spruce or WRC I have never felt the need to use a 1hp laminate trimmer for the job, even if the dial does go up to 11.



Colin
Author:  stan thomison [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:34 am ]
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fly cutter, then dremel, then lmi thing (can't get it setup right) back to dremel. may make the precision one down the line, but dremel in soft wood works fine for me
Author:  Homeboy [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:04 am ]
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I use a milwaukee router (full size) with a circle cutting jig for the base that I bought at woodcraft. With several different sizes of bits (I can buy down to 1/16 of an inch at the local hardware store in a 1/4 shank) I can cut almost any size rosette chanel. I like this system much better than a dremel. I started with the stewmac dremel setup and bits but found that it wobbled too much and left some gaps even with light passes.

Terry- I like the looks of your system as well. Good stuff.


Homeboy
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:27 am ]
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[QUOTE=TonyKarol] The design I have allows the pin to be under the router/jig base, and in no way is working blind - I can use a flashlight and see exactly where the bit is, for rough settings, then all you have to do is spin it around the top, just like any other jig. With the pin locked, where is the thing going to go ??? When a jig works this well, its easy to trust it ...[/QUOTE]

Tony- Perhaps I used the wrong term when I stated 'working blind'.
The centre pin I use is tapered, as per the Teeter design. This allows me to drop the pin deeper into the hole and take up any slop which develops if I am making a lot of passes and the hole widens. That's why I prefer/need a design where the pin is accessible from above the jig.
AS you correctly state, the pin isn't going anywhere if it is under the router base (and if the hole in the workboard is drilled to the correct depth.)
Judging by the pictures folks post here on the OLF, there are many ways to get excellent rosette results- the level of craftsmanship is very impressive.
John
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:21 am ]
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I use the Stew-Mac base and rosette cutting attachment with a dremel. Old base, so no micro-adjust. I'd like to have the new one with the micro-adjust, but I've never had much trouble with the old one, so it doesn't rise to the top of the priority list.

Jim

Author:  gratay [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:23 am ]
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thanks guys ....a lot of great ideas ....
I like the idea of utilising a laminate trimmer considering it will be needed for binding channels also so it makes sense ....
But i will consider the new stew-mac cutter as this jig looks nice......and a dremel would be handy for a few other tasks as well like inlay....although i don't think a dremel will handle cutting binding/purfling channels?
thanks for the help

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:04 am ]
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Like I said I use the StewMac base and a dremel or my Foredom, but one thing that keeps coming to my mind and has finally driven me to a new bout of NTAS (new tool acquisition syndrome), and that is not being able to see both edges of the channel clearly. I could build a new base out of lexan but have decided to enable my affliction of NTAS and buy this puppy.


This should scratch my itch for the rest of this year MichaelP39069.7153240741
Author:  Anthony Z [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:10 am ]
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Todd if I was making mine again -- I now know what it would look like! Very clever and functional!
Author:  Ray Pepalis [ Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:03 pm ]
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I use the old model Stew_Mac base with a dremel tool and a spiral downcut bit. I modified the base by adding a spring loaded micrometer adjustment screw.
Author:  Kirt Myers [ Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:38 am ]
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I've used this on 3 rosettes without a hitch. Pretty simple but it works. It has an old 5/16" pilot from a router bit that is threaded into different holes to get the different diameters.



I have a snug fitting hole in my workbench for the pivot point.



Cheers,
Kirt
Author:  crowduck [ Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:57 am ]
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The Black & Decker RTX will fit the StewMac base and is more powerfull and strudy.
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